the number of people of black children who get educated in integrated schools is something like 10%. you know, you look at the leadership, zuma versus mandela, and you look around africa, it doesn't seem as though sun, you know, it doesn't seem this was an upward trend. >> that's true. that discrepancy is true, but it's also true that the standard of living of black south africans has risen. the number of black south africans with clean drinking water and in the education system has gone up. south africa has been a glass half empty glass half full thing that people tend to project upon south africa a lot of the prejudices with which they enter into the situation to begin with. but i think what's really going to be interesting going forward now is in a sense a kind of custody battle for brand mandela. who claims him as their real symbol, and more mandela symbolism was his stuff in trade. he realized he was an astonishingly powerful symbol. in a sense you can see across the world we all want to claim him. all other countries want to claim mandela. he represents our better selves. but w